Morris Minor Forum

I think you need to get your head skimmed every time before you refit it if you want the job to last Ray.

I finally found a HS4 that fit my budget. $50.00 on Ebay, clean, new shaft and solid butterfly but missing the float. Replaced the HS6 with it and it runs great. Top speed may be compromised but I don't run 85mph very often, low speed torque is definitely better and it now idles at 700rpm instead of 1000.

I bet you are as pleased as a pup with 2 tails aren't you Phillip

Depends if your oil came with ZDDP or not John.

If you use a "Classic oil", I suspect it's pretty difficult to get one without enough ZDDP.

Another "Conventional wisdom" actually suggests adding extra ZDDP to oil with with enough ZDDP is asking for trouble.
Try Googling " ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling"
ZDDP contains phosphorous by the way, so you extra phosphorous when you add ZDDP

It seems like you could be risking your engine if you add extra ZDDP to a classic oil.

I use a synthetic oil made for petrol and diesel engines, it has 1200ppm of ZDDP, which sounds the bee's knees to me

Mike, ZDDP has been virtually eliminated here in the 'States in normally available motor oil. It used to be found in Shell "Rotella T" motor oil - which is used in heavy diesel trucks here with their very high compression ratios, but even Rotella T no longer has it in any meaningful amounts. There really aren't any readily available "classic" motor oils here like in the UK or Australia (how I miss Penrite products!) so putting in additives here is pretty essential.

Cheers,

Tom

I tried a number of US sites Tom, I couldn't find one that gave me data about the chemicals in US oil.
So nothing about zinc, calcium or mg KOH.

A bit of a conundrum
So I hedged my bets a bit with "Depends if your oil came with ZDDP or not John."

I included the bit about too much ZDDP doing more harm than good because it seemed relevant.

Are you 100% sure Rotella T doesn't have any ZDDP in it?
Or are you assuming there's no ZDDP in Rotella T because
. the data sheet doesn't give the information you need.

If you can buy ZDDP as an additive, why can't you buy it in oil sold for flat cam cars?
.

I would imagine that in the States, as here in Canada, a lot of these chemicals have gone the way of the Dinosaurs that made them.

All good Hot Rod Shops as well as any Jobber that supplies Engine Rebuilders has available Cam Break-In lubricant such as ISKY Rev Lube: Ideal for cam and lifter assembly protection on flat tappet hydraulic and solid lifter cams.

Modern oils and chemicals have eliminated a lot of the additives that used to provide various properties and replaced them with others that are more "Environment Friendly" and ,mostly man-made. It is usually recommended to change the oil at a predetermined mileage or use cycle when using such products.

An oil company executive as well as a couple of engine rebuilders once told me that "if these products were needed they are already in the premium oil you are buying, adding extra is not needed", high performance race engines using a racing specific oil are usually rebuilt after so many hours or runs, so having additives that prolong oil life are not required. The oil itself is changed much more frequently than that of a street car used for everyday or even occasional road use.

In real life, even a product like "Motor Honey" or "STP" additives are good for cams, lifters, timing components and oil pumps for break-in use.

Un these Modern Times we have to make do with what is available and a big thing reguarding chemicals is that they be Fresh! NOS chemicals can deteriorate if not stored correctly, but mostly due to age the chemicals can break down into harmful components.

I use just Castrol GTX 20W50 and a Fram full flow filter, both changed at the start of each driving season with no bad signs over the last 5 years. Whoever rebuilt the engine before I got the car did a great job, and I want to keep it that way. I have never been a fan of additives, but I am a fan of Proper Oil & Filter Changes, reguardless of the Brand, type or weight of the oil.

Mike I worked for years in the automotive aftermarket here. It's a "80%" mentality. Autoparts stores here are only concerned with the parts that will move the fastest - or cover 80% of the possible market. No parts stores executives are sweating it out over who is going to service or provide parts for old Morris Minors or MGs - or Buicks, for that matter. Not saying proper oils aren't available at all, just saying you REALLY need to seek things out here that are much more readily available in the UK or even Australia when I lived there - which isn't very long ago. New stock Rotella T no longer contains ZDDP as part of EPA mandates. Zinc is now a hazchem - just like lead in the fuel here. Gone.

Don - I agree that there is nothing more important than regular quality oil and filter changes - but the reality is that modern oils aren't formulated for non-hydraulic lifter flat-tappet overhead valve engines. Even more important is probably the fact that replacement flat lifters/cam followers are very much of suspect quality as compared to the OEM ones. I have to laugh that many parts suppliers here now offer a "good-better-best" lifter choice in their catalogs - why not just offer the best ones you can and tell everyone you provide the best ones out there?

Oh well - can't go back in time...

Any of these any good to you Tom

http://www.ebay.com/dsc/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_nkw=ZDDP+-additive&_sop=15

Indeed, Mike - but as mentioned, not exactly on the shelf locally : )

Cheers,

Tom

Thomas W,

Classic car oils may not be available locally to you but they are available in the US. I am in Laguna Hills, CA and have Castrol Classic 2oW50 on the shelf in 5 Liter tins. Made by Castrol in the UK for the Classic British car, this is a conventional multigrade engine oil of good all round performance. It is formulated with high quality mineral oils plus selected additives, ideally suited to older technology and classic car engines. Offers excellent oil consumption and a very high level of engine wear protection. This oil unlike modern oil you can buy at your local auto parts store does have the correct zinc content to protect flat tappet camshafts. The 5 liters (5.28 quarts) of oil comes in a classic green Castrol metal tin. Use the product and save the tin for your shop display. $45.00 a tin

Classic Car oil Available in the US!

I buy off eBay because it's cheaper and more convenient than I can buy trade Tom.
.

I agree with you, Tom. Mostly it is the readily available aspect that seems to be an issue, particularly here in Canada where chemicals cannot be shipped via mail. Most of them anyway, without extreme paperwork!

The product I mentioned, ISKY Rev Lube: Ideal for cam and lifter assembly protection on flat tappet hydraulic and solid lifter cams, is only one product that IS available locally at Karbelt Speed & Custom.

It is specifically made for Flat Tappet solid lifters, and it would be a current product to use. What really matters is that initial turning over of the rebuild. As long as everything is spun up, preferably with a drill or other external power, not the starter motor, well before final assembly then everything should perform as designed and have adequate oil pressure when the filter is finally installed so the system can build initial pressure without anything being "Dry" spun.

When I used to rebuild any engine, be it a motorcycle, lawn mower or car, at every stage of assembly the rotating parts were sufficiently lubricated and spun. That way the parts that were assembled first, usually the cam, has been already spun many times in the bushings providing good seating, and so on through the completed motor. Then the filter, if required, was filled with appropriate oil as was the oil pump during assembly. Then the drive for the oil pump was spun, be it the cam, or gear shaft spun to build pressure. At this stage an oil pressure gauge is connected to read that there is proper pressure build up before installation of the final components and installation in the vehicle.

There is a point where you can become too paranoid over a simple product. Mostly it us a matter of the KISS aspect, so that you can sleep properly.

Doesn't US Castrol Classic contain any ZDDP then please Steve?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-17 02:57 PM by 0123.

WOW!! $45 usd for Castrol GTX 20W50?????

I get it here at the local parts store in Oshawa, when available for $22-$30 for a 5 liter plastic jug, 1.32 US gallons!

Here in Canada, nothing consumer oil related comes in a metal container any more. I use GTX 20W50 in the Morris and GTX 10W40 in my JEEP exclusively and have had no issues whatsoever that are oil related. Years ago I used to use Rotela in my Minis, it was changed often when racing, I worked for Shell at the time, then switched to GTX and have used that in everything I owned.