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Modified Minors

conversion from drum brakes to disc brakes

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sharonbillings Sharon Billings
Kemptville, Canada   CAN
looking for information pertaining to conversions from drum brakes to disc brakes.

Thanks Sharon

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Flower Avatar
Flower Flor Siqueiros
Beverly Hills, CA, USA   USA
Hi Sharon.
My friend and Morris mechanic Steve sells the front and rear disc brake conversion kits from California (along with many other similar British car items at a very good price).
He's got a store on ebay so you can use paypal.
His phone is (714) 686-1236
His email is: schris51@att.net
His ebay store name is carcrazie51
I suggest you call him to ask questions.
He's very nice and accesible.
Tell him Flower gave you his number.
Cheers!

sealion Avatar
sealion Nicholas hill
Auckland, North Island, New Zealand   NZL
hi there check out either hopper stoppers in australia or jlhminors in the uk. jonathns will work off the standrd master cyclinder so i'd go for his. http://www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=3 th's quoted in us dollars.

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bufferzone Avatar
bufferzone Gord Smith-Ritchie
Surfside Colony, CA, USA   USA
If you're going to do it, I suggest you buy from ESM in the UK http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/popup_image.php?pID=3272
This is a link to the brake conversion kit. Don't use the Ford kit, use the Grumpy or Marina. You should also do a brake assist servo install and the master cylinder top up kit which you can get from Bull Motif in the UK http://www.morrisminorspares.net/shop_item.php?ID=2609
Shipping is not cheap, but you will get the right stuff at a good price.

You do not need to convert the rear brakes. leave them as drums. Good Luck.

Skye Avatar
Skye Webmaster Skye Nott
Vancouver, BC, Canada   CAN
1964 Vespa VNB 125
1966 MG MGB "The Bomber RIP"
1983 Suzuki MC GS750E "Kate"
1986 Merkur XR4Ti "The Rally Car"    & more
Hope those options help, Sharon!

Would love to see some photos of the conversion in process & the final product if you have a digital camera; you can post them here in the Forums, or you can start your own Journal (blog) to document your repairs & upgrades here:

http://www.morrisminorforum.com/journal/

Welcome to the website

Skye Nott
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barginbob Bob Finkel
Glen Ellyn, USA   USA
My 57 morris has disc brakes. How can I call the manufacture. Where can I get the correct bearings?

pixelsmithusa Avatar
In reply to # 1141 by bufferzone Don't use the Ford kit, use the Grumpy or Marina. You should also do a brake assist servo install and the master cylinder top up kit which you can get from Bull Motif in the UK http://www.morrisminorspares.net/shop_item.php?ID=2609
Shipping is not cheap, but you will get the right stuff at a good price.

You do not need to convert the rear brakes. leave them as drums. Good Luck.


Can you explain your recommendation to NOT use the Ford Kit? I've installed all 3 kits for Morris Minors (Midget/Marina/Ford) and the Ford is by far the superior performing kit. Also, a servo does nothing to improve braking, it only reduces pedal force. It's more important to get the right MC setup when doing a DB conversion. I have a couple complete Midget kits for anyone doing this that doesn't want to do the high dollar options.

I disagree with your "top up" conversion recommendation as well. It's completely unnecessary. The gravity feed from the high mounted reservoir will cause the MC to weep constantly and chances are you'll be refilling the reservoir and tube to the MC, only to spill it from the top of the MC. All that extra fluid will end up in your from the channel and promote rust. If you are having to refill the MC that often, time to fix the leaks at the MC instead!



Gerard

http://gerardsgarage.com/


Attachments:
mmDBUpg6.jpg    40 KB
mmDBUpg6.jpg

TANSTAAFL Avatar
TANSTAAFL Pat Atkinson
Feilding, Manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
Hi
I'm half way through doing a disc brake conversion (EMS - ford sierra). Have been distracted by house renovations but it's pretty straight forward. Some things I have found out are: 1. rebuild and modify the master cylinder. 2. You may need to do maintenence on your suspesion (fulcrum pins, seals, tie rods etc). 3. You should add a proporsional valve (ex Mini?) for the rear brakes. 4. (In New Zealand) you should find a pet certifier for getting the car road legal for when it's all finished.

Cheers
Pat

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bufferzone Avatar
bufferzone Gord Smith-Ritchie
Surfside Colony, CA, USA   USA
Sorry, just going from the Bull Motif site which did not recommend an earlier Ford conversion, but now there is a good Ford conversion that is high quality and is recommended. thumbs up
Charles Ware company installed my MC top up thing 12 years ago on the car (along with all the other upgrades, conversions) and no problems for me after owning it for one year now - never have added brake fluid and there is no leak. But thanks for the heads up, Gerard.
For those wanting to know which disc conversion you have, maybe look at Bull Motif's site as they sell pads for the Ford and Marina calipers and they are quite different looking. Mine is a Marina and the pads are small square pads.
Cheers!!spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

jkruer Avatar
jkruer Jim Kruer
Harrodsburg, KY, USA   USA
I am very interested in the disc brake conversion you mentioned and would like to know how much you want for the kit.

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PEwartDr Avatar
PEwartDr Paul Ewart
Hamilton, Waikato, New Zealand   NZL
3. You should add a proporsional valve (ex Mini?) for the rear brakes.


Tell me about the proporsional valve plse?

TANSTAAFL Avatar
TANSTAAFL Pat Atkinson
Feilding, Manawatu, New Zealand   NZL
Hi Paul

I'm only going from what I have read on other sites (eg MinorMania.com) but as I understand it. This ties in with (modifing) removing the restriction valve from the master cylinder. The reason for this is that if it is left in, the disc brakes will hold in after the brake pedal is released. To fix that the valve is removed but then the rear brake cylinders will drop the shoes away from the drums when the pedal is released. That's why you need a restrictor (proportional) valve added to the system to hold a little pressure in the line after lifting your foot off the pedal.

As I say this only the best I can figure from what I have read and I wont know for sure until my upgrade is done and tested.

Cheers
Pat

PEwartDr Avatar
PEwartDr Paul Ewart
Hamilton, Waikato, New Zealand   NZL
Thanks for that Pat,

I have attached a really good white paper by James Walker, Jr. on the True Story of a Misunderstood, Misused and Misnamed Brake System Component the proportioning valve. I have experience with these as an item used for balancing and pressure distribution of brake systems after the fitting of the dual airbag suspensions that we use to fit to luxury coaches. We used them to distribute the pressure in the brake system between the front and the back brakes, I never realise they use them for vehicles as small as the Morris. I guess I will find out once the discs are fitted and I can test drive.

I do not like the idea of having residual pressure in the system as it makes the system weep over time, so maybe it is better without one.


Attachments:
Centric White Paper D4-Proportioning Valves.pdf    242.3 KB

pixelsmithusa Avatar
In reply to # 3813 by TANSTAAFL Hi Paul

I'm only going from what I have read on other sites (eg MinorMania.com) but as I understand it. This ties in with (modifing) removing the restriction valve from the master cylinder. The reason for this is that if it is left in, the disc brakes will hold in after the brake pedal is released. To fix that the valve is removed but then the rear brake cylinders will drop the shoes away from the drums when the pedal is released. That's why you need a restrictor (proportional) valve added to the system to hold a little pressure in the line after lifting your foot off the pedal.

As I say this only the best I can figure from what I have read and I wont know for sure until my upgrade is done and tested.

Cheers
Pat

Your assumption that a proportioning valve is needed for the disc brake conversion is erroneous. It can be used of course, but is completely unnecessary in this case unless you intend on racing. Please don't mix up the differences between a restrictor valve, a residual valve and a proportioning valve. A residual valve is needed in drum brake applications. Brake shoes have heavy return springs to return the shoes to a rest position. This also forces fluid back to the master cylinder when the wheel cylinder are compressed by the shoe withdrawal. Without a residual valve, the shoes will be farther away from the drums than is desired for quick response and the pedal must be pumped to get them back in position. You've no doubt experienced this when your rear shoes are out of adjustment. Since the Morris was never built with disc brakes, there is normally a residual valve in the master cylinder.

Disc brakes do not require a residual valve, but do require a restrictor valve in many cases, especially in a disc/drum brake combination. Because the pressure relief from your foot off the pedal, and the seal around the piston are all that is needed to withdraw the pads sufficiently.If the residual valve is left in the MC, it can allows the pads to drag and in some cases, due to other variables, possibly even cause them to lock up. This is why the residual valve must be removed form the MC when doing a disc brake conversion. Normally, a restrictor valve could be added to remedy the situation, however the Morris is a special case.

Unlike most modern cars, the location of the master cylinder is under the floor. This difference in the physical relationship between the location of the calipers to the master cylinder is significant given that the calipers are close to or above the master cylinder, they can allow fluid to drain back toward the master cylinder. This is why I install 2 residual valves when converting a Morris to disc brakes.

By using an inline 2PSI valve in the front line, you eliminate the back-flow issue, but don't maintain enough pressure to cause the pads to drag, In the rear line, I use an inline 10PSI valve so that the rear brakes function normally. This is all that is required as far as valves. It is also recommended that you use the 13/16" bore master cylinder, rather than the 7/8" one. The issue has only to do with pedal force, not braking itself. I think we all know that you need to be a "gorilla" already when it comes to the brake pedal, so any improvement in that department is good... :-)

Please see my web page for the disc brake conversion discussion and a description of the difference between a residual and a restrictor valve. This particular article is for Spridgets, but remember most Morris Minors (at least in the US) use most of the same Spridget components. (link below)

http://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/Tech/DbrakeUg.htm

Please consider this admonition in the article that Paul includes above:

"More importantly, we hope that you take away the understanding that replacing, modifying, or just plain fiddling with your proportioning valve can do more harm than good. While it is not quite black magic, there are plenty of opportunities to throw the system into disarray without even knowing it. "



Gerard

http://gerardsgarage.com/

premjeep4 Butch Wyrick
Antonia, USA   USA
Hello Sharon,
I have a 1959 Morris Minor 1000 2 door sedan that I converted the front end to Disc brakes,I used a company by the name of "Discount Brakes " out of Southern California for the Front Disc Rotors (Very High Quality ) and not a bad cost either .I paid $142.00 for a pair of cadmium plated cross drilled with dippled holes in them ,there phone number is 1-888-279-9486.
I received ALL of the rest of my Disc Brake conversion parts to finish it off from MOSS Motors also out of California www.MossMotoring.com phone number 1-800-667-7872
I could never be happier with the turn out ....It's Awesome ,Like driving a totally different car..
Good Luck,
B. Wyrick

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