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Transmission crossmember

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dgilling Dave Gillingham
Coronado, CA, USA   USA
Hello: I was working on removing the engine and trans from my 59 Minor. Made good progress until I tried to remove the trans crossmember. The bolts on either end are installed the opposite of each other. The bolts on the driver side are installed with the threaded side exposed below the frame. These nuts came off easily. The pax side bolts are installed the opposite direction, and I assumed the associated nuts must be welded inside the frame. If they were welded, they aren't now. Is this some sort of anomaly with my car, or is there a trick I don't know?

Thanks in advance!



Dave Gillingham
59 Morris Traveler
Coronado, CA

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0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR


Attachments:
Ferd 2.jpg    44.2 KB
Ferd 2.jpg

emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
Both sides were alike with two caged nuts per side. 5/16 - 24 BSF bolts with lock washers come in from the bottom. The bolts often rust and are too tight for the cages to hold or the bolts break. Some PO decided to fix it with fixed bolts. I usually use a tapped plate and retain it with a rivet or a screw.

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i.Don Avatar
i.Don Don Miller
Bellevue, WA, USA   USA
I found the bolts on the crossmember of my 1959 were not fully tightened and when I tried to tighten I learned they had been cross threaded and stripped. I suspect the PO held the brace up with one hand and tried to thread the bolt while stuck in the socket on the end of a pneumatic socket gun. I had to remove the floor pan to get to the captured nuts in the frame which I replaced with stainless. Luckily the cages were still serviceable. The floorpan was a whole other project with a stripped screw behind the gas pedal and a hand made gasket from neoprene to seal the floor.

66jalopy Avatar
66jalopy Silver Member Phillip Jolliffe
Lake City, FL, USA   USA
Did you have the proper posi screwdriver? A phillip's will strip just about any screw on a Morris.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-16 07:31 AM by 66jalopy.

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
I wish I's a knowed that
when I were a young un Phil winking smiley

i.Don Avatar
i.Don Don Miller
Bellevue, WA, USA   USA
What's this Posi screwdriver...a tool I don't have? I used a #3 Phillips with no problem but several screws had been replaced by the PO with wood screws! The one behind the gas pedal had been cross threaded and had to be drilled out when the head broke off...

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0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
It's like a Phillips
but different.

"The Pozidriv screw is an advanced version of the Phillips screw but the key difference is that: Phillips drivers have an intentional angle on the flanks and rounded corners so they will cam out of the slot before a power tool will twist off the screw head. The Pozidriv screws and drivers have straight sided flanks."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-16 08:31 AM by 0123.


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ferd.jpg

emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
The Phillips - Pozidriv issue is not quite simple. I read not too long ago that Europe never adopted the Phillips head as the American auto industry did. However, Pozidriv wasn't introduced until the mid-Fifties, so what did the early Minors use for the gear box cover and the door hinges? Naturally, I can't find that article again, but the one below confirms the mid-Fifties intro on Healeys. It appears that the British industry did use Phillips before switching over to Pozidriv. You must look at the heads for the extra score lines to confirm Pozidriv. I've seen two styles of brass gearbox cover screws, an oval head and a flat head, but both do not have the score lines. The brake drum retaining screws and various trim pieces do have the score lines indicating Pozidriv. Can anyone confirm what the gearbox cover and door hinge (door side) screws are?


http://www.justbrits.com/pozi/pozidriv.html

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emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
This link puts the intro date for Pozidriv as late 1959.
https://trademarks.justia.com/720/91/pozidriv-72091321.html

This link does mention that Phillips is very seldom used in Europe and the Far East and that Pozidriv is the standard.
http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/ see the section about Pozidriv and you will find this.

"Pozidriv was jointly patented by the Phillips Screw Company and American Screw Company in the USA. Developed by GKN in the 1960s, the recess is licensed from Trifast PLC in the rest of the world. It is the de facto standard in Europe and most of the Far East, where Phillips is almost nonexistent. The proper Pozidriv screws have a flatter bottom to the socket, and steeper sides, so the driver doesn't cam out as easily. The name is thought to be an abbreviation of positive drive. "

So what was used before 1960?

John in Eugene Avatar
John in Eugene Gold Member John Quilter
Eugene, Oregon, USA   USA
Looking at my multibit screwdriver I find these double ended bits. So are the ones in the middle and right Posi Drive bits? I believe the left one is a Phillips.

John F. Quilter
Eugene, Oregon USA


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Posidrive bit.JPG

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
I think so John. Incorrect, I've researched further

From the end,
PoziD stand to attn.

Phillips slouch.

PH3 is definitely a PoziD Sorry Incorrect thumbs down
PH3 is Phillips 3 sad smiley


"A Phillips driver has an angle on the flanks, a pointed tip and rounded corners. The Pozidriv screwdrivers have straight sided flanks, a blunt tip and additional smaller ribs at 45° to the main slots"



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-17 09:39 AM by 0123.

emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
Pozidriv bits are marked PZ and Phillips PH or sometimes just P. There should be some ridges between the flutes that create a square in the center. I think the left one is PH1 and the other two are PH3.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=XG%2fZlAG%2b&id=2C0145C3F5688CB2353AF42E98AEA896509F7417&thid=OIP.XG_ZlAG-VHZID0ToR7D0VgEsD6&q=pozidriv+bit&simid=608026461517710497&selectedIndex=7&qpvt=pozidriv+bit&ajaxhist=0

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
Pozidriv on your right.
On the pictures left.

Each seems too worn to use.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-17 09:43 AM by 0123.


Attachments:
Ferd 2.jpg    38.5 KB
Ferd 2.jpg

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
The one on my right may be a
poor copy of a Pozidriv John.

Lack of centre flutes stops it
from being a proper Pozidriv.

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