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Negative Earth Mixup please help

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andrewdh Andrew Harrison
Rougham, Suffolk, UK   GBR
Hi.

Number one Son tried to Jumpstart our 1958 Minor but connected the Jumpstarter to to the battery the wrong way around. In his defence I suppose he attached the black to the black unfortunately because its been converted from positive earth to negative earth the Black as they say was in fact the red.

So he connected positive to negative and negative to positive and then tried to start the car, nothing much happened except he noticed a brown smell coming from the Alternator (it has one of those as well).

I disconnected the Jumpstart battery and in a vain hope than nothing bad had happened reconnected it the right way around. The ignition light came on and the petrol pump ran but pulling the start button doesn't do anything, silence ensued.

So before he becomes Number Omega Son what is he likely to have blown, Solenoid, Starter Motor, Coil, I think the Alternator is shot he said a decent amount of smoke came out of it and when I arrived in the Garage it smelt terrible.

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

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66jalopy Avatar
66jalopy Silver Member Phillip Jolliffe
Lake City, FL, USA   USA
Probably just the alternator, Maybe a wire also got hot somewhere and the battery may not be any good anymore. The rest of the car doesn't care which way the electrons flow. Coil will work either way also. Unless you have electronic ignition dizzy should be OK, hope you don't have a wireless, (radio, winking smiley)

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
I'd say you have a knackered battery
and a knackered alternator Andrew?

I suggest you blame whoever colour
coded your battery leads incorrectly..

And be very pleased the battery didn't blown
up costing your son his looks and his eyesight.

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andrewdh Andrew Harrison
Rougham, Suffolk, UK   GBR
Thanks

I have already ordered a new Alternator, which will be here tomorrow. I was hoping its only that. The starter motor is pretty easy to change but the pull start solenoid is tricky to remove and replace.

Regards
Andrew

andrewdh Andrew Harrison
Rougham, Suffolk, UK   GBR
I have no idea who converted it from positive to negative earth. The car doesnt have a radio or any non standard electrics though it does have indicators which were added to augment the trafficators, though these still work well.

The car was dumped in our Garage about 25 years ago and when nothing happened to it for a couple of years we acquired it and renovated it.

Its a 4 door Saloon, without a working alternator.

Thanks again
Andrew

66jalopy Avatar
66jalopy Silver Member Phillip Jolliffe
Lake City, FL, USA   USA
Unless starter solenoid was bad before this happened it should still be OK. You may want to loosen the connection, clean the terminals etc.

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
The electricity from the jump battery had no
reason to go to the starter solenoid Andrew..

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0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
If you have the usual plug in connector
alternator I daresay the plug is knacked too.

Those connectors aren't up to the job in normal
use, and your use was anything but normal sad smiley

Best to buy a complete lead Andrew.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-07 09:20 AM by 0123.

usmh3 Avatar
usmh3 Rob Thomas
Cardiff, Wales, UK   GBR
Lucas at one stage wouldn't cover warranty returns if the wiring plug wasn't changed at the same time. I got caught and they showed me the warranty paperwork to prove it. Vehiclewiringproducts sell the plugs, if you need one. Worth contacting them just for the catalogue!

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/

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0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
Here's the plug Andrew.
£2.48 plus VAT from Auto Electric smiling smiley
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php?xProd=587


You also need a decent crimping tool.
£29.59 plus VAT from Auto E sad smiley
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php/269/ratchet-crimping-tool

I've never used an Auto E plug.
I've never found a plug worth fitting either.

When I buy an alternator,
I buy one with a threaded post.

They Lucas blade connectors
earned Jo Lucas the soubriquet,

Lucas, Prince of Darkness


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0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
I can offer you a couple of ways to
sort crap 15ACR / 18ACR alternators.

Get an Auto-electrician to crimp 9.5mm
connectors to one end of 6mm2 cables.

Along with ring connectors at the other end.

The cables need to be long enough
to reach the live / black battery post
or the starter solenoid / battery connection.

The ring connector needs to fit the
battery post bolt / the solenoid post.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-9-5mm-Yellow-Female-Spade-Terminal-Connector-Crimp-On-Alternator-Splice-/121911762839?epid=714708514&hash=item1c6281df97:g:yCwAAOSwWTRW1uje


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0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
The other way is illustated in the pic.

A 5mm bolt thro' 5.5 holes filled in the spades.

I developed that mod to use on a motorhome.
Getting rid of poor connections with their associated
goltage drops is essential for leisure battery charging.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-08 06:40 AM by 0123.


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emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
I see the connector housing has the A-MP logo. The company stopped using that logo in the Fifties of Sixties (changed it to just AMP) and the current owner, TE Connectivity has left the AMP logo go, (regrettably) so that might be a copy.

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
Spot on Jim thumbs up

How do you rate the actual connectors

emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
AMP who developed the solderless terminals in the Forties put a tremendous amount of engineering into the crimp technology. One of the sales mottoes was "Engineering at the end of the wire." They also did a lot of research on contact physics so that the contacts can handle the current rating over the life of the connector after expected mating cycles. Cross wiring the alternator created a short and the resulting high current, but I would think the alternator blew out before any damage could occur to the connector. High current through a connector causes a temperature rise resulting in melting of the housing. Damage to the contact surfaces is normally from arcing during mating, which didn't happen in this case. With enough heat the copper alloy contact could anneal itself which would loosen the crimp to the wire and lower the contact forces. Surely the alternator blew before any damage could happen to a good connector. Now a copy on the other hand, who knows. The companies that copy only copy what they observe and understand. There is no way of knowing to what parameters they designed their product. You would be looking for and distortion to the housing, the wire should still be firmly crimped and the force to mate and unmate significant, which needs to be confirmed individually.

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