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Fuel Gauge issues

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Kaskass Kassim Hantouli
London, London, UK   GBR
Hello all,

New to the forum, and a new Morris owner!! I have searched the forum high and low but I am still stuck with the fuel gauge issue. I have a 1963 minor with a gold speedo (i t has been changed to negative earth) and the fuel gauge is reading empty. When i turn the ignition the needle jumps from below 0 to 0. I have checked the connections behind the speedo and the fuse all is fine. When i disconnect the earth from the fuel sender the gauge jumps to full. I cant seem to figure it out any help would be much appreciated!!

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pixelsmithusa Avatar
The gold faced speedo is pre-1962, which coincided with the change to the 1098 and other changes. A '63 would have had a black faced speedo. The tank sending uint for the gold faced speedo is different from the black faced speedo. They must match or the gauge works in reverse. Chances are you have the wrong sending unit. Either change to the correct gauge or change the sending unit.



Gerard

http://gerardsgarage.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-09 04:56 PM by pixelsmithusa.

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
Charley Ware gives some idea of prices.
No doubt you will find cheaper on ebay yawning smiley)

Bottom of page 1.

In the past,
I;ve swapped the float to the other side
to change lthe direction of rotation to suit.

And swapped the ends of the coil
in the gauge to reverse movement.

http://www.morrisminorspareparts.co.uk/index.php/electrics-instruments-and-lights/speedometer-fuel-gauge

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emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
A gold face or more a silver face speedo is appropriate for a 63. This is a transistion model. The odometer will have tenths The black face didn't come out until the revised dash in 64. I'm not sure when the sending unit was changed. Is there a voltage regulator attached to the fuel gauge? I think the regulator was part of the change to the reverse action of the sender. Reversed in that the max resistance is now at full or empty and previously it was the other way around. I don't have a later arrangement, but I assume the response of the needle is slower so it doesn't bounce around as the fuel splashes. You could try to ground the tank side of gauge to different resistance loads and see if the needle moves. Using a rheostat or a sending unit would be best. If you take out the sender you can swing it through the arc and read the resistance change. A photo of your sending unit will confirm what vintage you have.

pixelsmithusa Avatar
You're right, had I read Newell's book a little closer I would have seen the change date for the dash was October '64. The voltage stabilizer does not appear on wiring diagrams until models equipped with separate flashing equipment.

In reply to # 24762 by emjay A gold face or more a silver face speedo is appropriate for a 63. This is a transistion model.



Gerard

http://gerardsgarage.com/

emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
So that would me all of the 1098s with the dual bulb side and tail lamps have the voltage stabilizer. Does that mean these same models also have the reversed fuel sending unit? Here in the States we have very few of these pre-67 1098 models so knowledge of the differences is not as good. The later sending units look very much different on the outside than the earlier ones, so a photo would confirm it.

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
Bi-metal fuel gauges are the
ones that need voltage stabilisers.

You cannot rererse them
by reversing the current
direction through the coil.

Reversing the direction in
which the float rotates the
spindle is the only method..

emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
The resistance values of the new versus old sender may also be in different ranges and that might cause the gauge to respond gauge to respond as reported. The first step to confirm if all the components are compatible to a particular vintage.

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
The resistances of old and new senders
are the same at one end of the float swing.

I think it would make more sense if Kassim
took the old fuel gauge out, connected it
the other way round and powered up.

UL102 2 UNIT - FUEL TANK SENDER 1098 BLACK GAUGE 25.50
FUL102E 3 UNIT - EARLY FUEL TANK SENDER FOR GOLD SPEEDO GAUGE 40.00

From Charles Ware.

Apart from that, how full is your tank please?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-10 03:50 PM by 0123.

Kaskass Kassim Hantouli
London, London, UK   GBR
Hello all,

Thank you for all the advice, i have tried switching the wired behind the fuel gauge but that didn't work either. I have attached some photos of the car the first shows with ignition off, the second shows with ignition on (the needle goes to 0) and the others are of the top of the tank sender unit.

Really appreciate the support!


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emjay Jim English
Marietta, PA, USA   USA
Your sender is the older style as it should be. The voltage stabilizer and reversed sender is only for the black face fuel gauge. That's good to know that the min and max resistance values are the same, just at different ends of the sweep. People who have mixed components do report it reads backwards. Battery polarity has no effect on the operation.

Now give us more details since low fuel is a good explanation. When was the last time the gauge was working acceptably? Has the the car been unused for a long while? I recently woke up two cars from a four year and a eight year spell and both had stuck floats. Fuel has so many additives now and gums up once the volatiles are gone. Filling the tank and driving didn't work. Had to take out the sender and easily moved the float and all was good. Your photo shows that getting the sender out may take awhile. You can do some tests at the gauge end. Disconnect the wire to the sender from the gauge. Then connect that terminal to ground momentarily and see if the gauge jumps. It would be best to have some resistance in the jumper to ground. Light bulbs will do if you don't have anything else. Hopefully, you will get different fuel readings with different resistance loads. If so the gauge is good and the problem is the sender.

0123 Mike D
Biddulp, Staffs, UK   GBR
Assuming you reversed the
wiring at the gauge correctly,
you have a bimetal fuel gauge.

The fly in the ointment is that bi-metal
gauges don't if you disconnect the sender.

Please will you explain exactly
how you switched the wires please?

Also, how much fuel is there in the tank.

Some alternative speedo heads here.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.XMorris+Minor+speedometer.TRS0&_nkw=Morris+Minor+speedometer&_sacat=0

Replacing your speedo head
with a model correct head and
then flogging your old head could
be the most cost effective way to go,


In reply to # 24779 by Kaskass Hello all,

Thank you for all the advice, i have tried switching the wired behind the fuel gauge but that didn't work either. I have attached some photos of the car the first shows with ignition off, the second shows with ignition on (the needle goes to 0) and the others are of the top of the tank sender unit.

Really appreciate the support!

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